Beer/ Wine in Zilker Park

Great article from Austin Towers on why Barton Springs Cafe should absolutely be allowed to sell Beer & Wine:

From the operators of the new cafe:

Garrett told the board, “Many of the comments (opposed to alcohol) are based on fear.” He said he and Cirkiel run or are in partnerships with 16 food and beverage sites throughout the city, including at Austin-Bergstrom International Airport, where they hold a city contract to operate eating establishments in the new terminal. “We made this concept and we created this concept specifically for Barton Springs Pool,” he said, adding that he and Cirkiel have a proven record of selling beer and wine responsibly.

Unfortunately, looks like the proposal won’t pass but if you would like to let PARD know that it should be okay to have a safe, licensed place to legally and responsibly consume alcohol in Zilker Park, you can email them here: ZilkerVision@austintexas.gov

Yours in fun,

Felicity Maxwell

Melridge Pl

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Since SOS is getting into the legislating morality business no one tell them about the nudity, dancing or green being smoked down at barton springs.

SOS has always been in the morality business.

It is a moral value to want to protect springs so nothing new here.

While I am not opposed to them serving beer/wine as a moral hazard- I do have concern with the constant blending of park land and private commerce. Its a slippery slope as many moral hazards are- and I do not see the benefit of taking public parkland and pushing towards more even commercialization.

So I try to look at the benefit and see if its worth the trade- i cant see how allowing a private vendor to serve cans of wine can improve a beautiful sacred place…maybe it can help a wedding or a rock concert.

Preservation and conservation of wetlands, parklands and ecosystems typically begins w retarding the use of that area but I have never seen where adding more commerce benefits it long term. The idea is to allow it to flourish and maintain a level of use for all ages.

Not a morality question as much as its a - why add this anyway? As it is now, if you need to get dialed in to enjoy the springs - you can byob in a thermos or get mega high in the parking lot. So the use is already there but commercial interests will only erode for more and more until the springs have little more to give. Thats the usual outcomeZ

Maybe if every cent of profit went to the preservation of the springs? Then we got something- that could be cool to see the springs benefit directly w money in exchange for increased traffic.

Some things are worth the sacrifice.

Nicholas Vaughan

SOS has always been in the morality business. It is a moral value to want to protect springs so nothing new here.

SOS is – or rather was – in the environmental protection business, which isn’t related to “morality” per se. They’ve also opted to butt in to numerous areas that have nothing whatsoever to do with Barton Springs; while SOS’s opposition to developing land along Southwest Parkway back in the '90s – for purposes of protecting both the Edwards Aquifer as well as the Springs – was laudable, its biggest current interest seems to be focused on the exact opposite of progressivism: protecting the property values of longtime homeowners, many of whom are sitting on $1M+ of accrued equity in said homes. Certainly the best example is its continued opposition to a rewrite of the land-development code that would explicitly increase environmental protections for infill projects.

Also, why do you think selling beer & wine would somehow result in damage to the Springs? Visitors can already bring in nonalcoholic beverages – mostly in single-use plastic bottles, which are obviously the opposite of “environmentally friendly” – so I’m not really seeing why “soft” alcohol sales are much (or at all) different in terms of protecting the Springs.

I do have concern with the constant blending of park land and private commerce.

While I’m admittedly baffled by the contingent of Austinites so strongly opposed to any type of private commerce on parkland, I’d point out that we already have two private concession stands – both of which sell beer & wine – in local publicly owned parks: at Republic Square downtown as well as the still-new Olamaie concession stand at the Butler Pitch & Putt. Further, every public golf course in town has both a pro shop as well as food/drink concessions.

Further still, it’s really not at all unusual to have private concessions of various types on public lands, and this is true coast-to-coast. Yellowstone National Park has two dozen private lodges & inns located inside the park itself, along with a variety of restaurants & shops. Plenty of Western ski resorts are located inside national parks as well as forests. As a more direct comp, Shake Shack got its start as a walk-up stand in NYC’s Madison Square Park.

These are just a few of the hundreds, if not thousands, of additional examples. (Also, just FYI, the city of Austin explicitly forbade its previous BYOB policy on public golf courses, in part to encourage purchasing beer/wine on-site.)

i cant see how allowing a private vendor to serve cans of wine can improve a beautiful sacred place

“Sacred” is a stretch IMO, but this sentence implies that selling beer & wine would result in damage to Barton Springs. I’m frankly not seeing a rational basis for this argument: its biggest threat, by a considerable margin, stems from runoff in populated areas that eventually makes its way to the Springs (and occasionally results in their closure).

While I know the ZNA fervently opposes any commercial use of Zilker Park – including ACL Fest – these sentiments are mainly rooted in NIMBYism, not concern for the environment or “morality.” And if our elected council members vote in favor of a Barton Springs concession stand, I’d take that as representative of the sentiments of Austinites generally. (And no, Zilker folks don’t have any “special” privileges in this regard.)

Im happy to disagree with you but you always pick out the one thing and argue it down to where it loses context… I take it this form of argument allows you to achieve wins but it does little to make anyone feel like they can share an opinion simply to share an opinion.

End of day- we will just disagree. You think it needs alcohol. I don’t see why it does.

Through all of your arguments you forgot to tell me why- we think we actually need this added? What does it bring that is not already there?

That is the bigger question? Why do we need it? Just because we can, should we?

I also don’t understand the argument b/c NYC did this, we should also follow. Because Yellowstone did this, we should do this… Yellowstone’s foray into that has been an eco-disaster and its only getting worse. Sierra Club has all the info you can stand on that national park and its move towards making it more “accessible” for those that cant hack it. I have family that live in Island Park, ID and they said its never been the same since the small intrusions to YNP and it also wrecks the outside towns that were built originally on that commerce prior to savvy businessman figuring out how to get people even closer to tar pits while they sleep that are on land that is supposed to be set aside from commerce. Its conservation.

There is a great book on how people die every year at YNP and a lot of it is human stupidity and just doing things to do them.

I hear all of your arguments and like I said, I do not have any moral clause that is against drinking alcohol - I just cant tell what the next step is- and from what I have experienced in the past (purely anecdotal) is that Park lands, national parks, etc. lose their wilderness, their wildness and their extreme beauty that helps them stay equal in austerity with civilization. Thats just the point, to escape the ever growing grip of humans to dominate every little nook and cranny.

Then again, this is just a shack serving crappy wine so maybe I shouldn’t care so much.

Shake shack. Could certainly live my life without it, that is fact.

Nicholas M. Vaughan
razortiger@gmail.com

I only intended to make a joke but good thoughtful response Nick. Everyone just needs to learn a lesson from the water - stay chill and go with the flow.

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I apologize for going a bit overboard in my last email – I honestly didn’t intend to start some sort of fight – so I’ll keep this one succinct:

Through all of your arguments you forgot to tell me why- we think we actually need this added? What does it bring that is not already there?

An added convenience that many park-goers (spring-goers?) will appreciate, and one that will also boost revenues. I agree that it’s not “needed” per se, but to quote your own comment:

Then again, this is just a shack serving crappy wine so maybe I shouldn’t care so much.

…which was my main point. If it was some sort of massive bar selling Jello shots primarily to rowdy frat boys and the like, that’d be one thing, but we’re talking about a handful of various low-alcohol beverages sold at a small concession stand. I completely agree with both Felicity & the Towers article she posted in her OP.

No one buys Jello shots. Those are home made. And gross.

Sounds like the trouble is frat boys, not concession stands. I encourage you all to ask your bros to check their male privilege and Leave No Trace.

I E party on, but don’t be trash. Use the trash cans.

Why does any place need to sell beer / wine? Primarily it is a great source of revenue. Those that don’t drink maybe will get a higher grade hot dog because the business is able to make some of its revenue off of alcohol sales.

To me it really just comes down to the fact that people are already drinking in the park. How much impact is it going to have on me, personally, if this place sells alcohol - absolutely zero ( #yetilife for the win ).

But it does just seem to be a classic example of over blown concerns and fear mongering for something that will allow a small business to make a little extra money and allow those that care to, to enjoy an icy cold adult beverage in a beautiful setting.

I also see a lot of similarities to the marijuana legalization arguments. People are already doing it. Why not provide a legal outlet.

Peace out and maybe let’s lighten up a bit as a neighborhood :slight_smile: there are so many more important things that would affect the quality of life in our neighborhood where we can put our energy.

Hah! Yes. Think European cafe not dirty sixth.

No one buys Jello shots. Those are home made. And gross. Sounds like the trouble is frat boys, not concession stands. I encourage you all to ask your bros to check their male privilege and Leave No Trace.

Just to clarify, I mentioned that only as an extreme hypothetical! (And I’d definitely never encourage anyone at the Springs to leave any trace that they were there, regardless of gender.) Btw I don’t know if this is still the case, but back in my younger days you could definitely buy Jello shots at a number of bars on Dirty Sixth.

Word on the street is the Zilker Zephyr will have a new bar-car. Choo choo!

Nicholas Vaughan

FYI, if anyone would like to hear about / discuss the issue in person (this starts in 10 min sorry for the short notice!):

AED July Meeting SATURDAY IN PERSON at Barton Springs with Bobby Levinski!
Join us for our first IN PERSON meeting of 2021 at the Playscape Shelter Near Barton Springs Pool in Zilker Park with Bobby Levinski!
TOPIC:
Bobby will be discussing the status of ongoing highway projects that threaten Barton Springs and the Edwards Aquifer, as well as the recent proposal to allow alcohol sales outside the gates of Barton Springs.
Saturday, July 10, 2021 at 11 AM CDT

Another opportunity to provide feedback on August 10 at the Zilker Park Vision plan:

https://www.austintexas.gov/ZilkerVision

Thanks for sharing JP! There is also a follow up survey from the 1st meeting that reviews some of the overall themes of the new vision plan. Highly recommend taking a few minutes to fill out this link: Voting

And more details on the next meeting (on 8/10) can be found here: Zilker Park Vision Plan Community Meeting #2: Programming