To paraphrase what Anne Kitchens office communicated: There has been significant support and input from the African-American community in Austin who very much want this to happen. Furthermore, the other council members see Robert E. Lee as a public street, with citywide impact vs a neighborhood street that can be left alone. Which is why they want to make a statement about inclusivity, and have this change go through.
+1 for
Also +1 on your overall sentiment
And sheâs supposed to be representing us. That was the propagandized idea that had people voting for single member districts after they put it to a vote for the umteenth time - i.e. after enough outsiders moved to town to overthrow a far more democratic at large system that had worked just fine previously. Now we get absolutely NO representation for our skyrocketing taxation. If that sounds familiar, I think it was a major contributor to the American Revolution.
But another contributor to the racism that characterizes this name change is embedded in the language that has become commonplace. When referring to blacks as African-Americans, a distinction is drawn. What should be five letters and one sylable doesnât just become 17 letters and 7 sylables. (Altho the editor in me cringes whenever I see it.) Is it an accurate description?
Did the people referred to come from Somalia? Did they come from Niger? Did they come from Egypt, Ethiopia, Morrocco? Maybe a few did. I remember getting audited back in the day by a guy from Nigeria. I know he fleeced me. You have to give in to them or they steal your life and drive you out of business. He probably ran a letter writing scheme on the side. Anyway, he was the exception. Almost all the folks referred to as African-American are generations removed from that continent.
So, why are they called African-Americans? If you examine the copy of people who use that term, you will find that they usually use the term interchangably with black. They often say black in the next sentence. So why the distinction? People donât even consider applying the same convention to whites. It would be awkward to call whites European-Americans all the time, not to mention 5 letters and 1 sylable becoming 17 letters and 8 sylables.
If America is to live up to its own publicity as a melting pot, why do people construct language barriers to achieving the ideal? Why arenât we all just Americans? This is what the most educated and intelligent blacks I know think also. And I know many. But even tehy sometimes slip into the divisive language of identity politics. They do so in mixed company when it seems like white discomfort is assuaged. The whites are over-compensating for the guilt they feel because they were relatively advantaged by being born to white parents, as if the whites had anything to do with that - just like the blacks.
The blacks I know call themselves other things besides blacks too. But they are not African-Americans. Iâd get blasted for telling it like it is. I always do. If you want to change the world, if you want to work toward a society where everyone is treated fairly and equally, it helps to start with the basics. Language is one of those.
And for those snooty name-calling racists who santimoniosly judge me for being from a humble background and calling it like I see it. You would do well to get off your hypocritical high horse. I guarantee I havenât seen one of yâall at any East Austin poker game. I know because Iâm nearly always the only white guy. If you think the tokenism of naming this street is going to wash away your sins, youâre fooling yourselves. But Iâm sure youâll feel all cleansed. I know what you would do if this area started turning black. Yâall would be falling over each other to move to the burbs pronto. Iâve seen that movie. I know how it ends.
D5 needs someone on the council who represents us - not D1. Remarkably, Ora Houston was the only CM who raised doubts about how they were pulling this off when the Council emotionally started this name-changing process. The white majority has twisted the City Code around like a pretzel to do this.
For one thing, there is no provision in the City Code for renaming a street to dishonor a person. For another, Kitchen couched her argument for applying for the name change herself as reliving local residents of the âburdenâ of doing it themselves. What a bunch of hooey! They never had any intention of giving voice to local sentiment. They process was a fraud on all those affected on REL. Kitchen says she received many calls from Barton Hills neighbors. I asked her how many. She couldnât or wouldnât answer. I asked her who. She wouldnât answer. If she got any, they were from the other end of the hood where the rich folk live.
Kitchen will claim Public Demand. Itâs a lie. A few loud people from all over the county signed a Change.org petition. The petition was created by the Mexican guy that lives a couple doors down from me on REL. Iâve tried to get along with that guy but he hates Anglos and thinks he has a mission to Mexicanize the US. Iâve known this for years. He rants! The petition has no validity. 99% of yâall have no clue whatâs going on here. The guy who wrote the petition called the media the day after the signs were vandalized. I know because I saw the TV crew come to his place. They walked out to view the sign right in front of my place. Are you paying attention? Are you thinking yet?
Are you paying attention? Are you thinking yet?
tl;dr
Thanks for the summary. I wasnât paying attention.
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I get that to some people, Black or African American or whatever you want to call them are not part of âusâ
Interestingly, Rod, a lot of us in Zilker donât actually feel that way.
Who was it working just fine for? Us? Which us? What about it was working so great? If it was working so great, who motivated a change and what reasons did they give? If those reasons were bad ones, please enlighten me as to what was so bad about them.
Is Us bothered by having to work a little harder to talk about Black people respectfully? For all the complaining about syllables and letter counts, you more than anyone on this forum writes entire diatribes about it. If you kept a balance of extra letters and syllables I think that if you were quit writing an essay every time the topic came up, you would definitely come out ahead. Donât throw some BS âitâs inefficient to do thisâ argument. Everything about your approach is inefficient, yet, you continue to do it. Clearly efficiency is not a big concern of yours. Quit acting like it is when it serves your purpose.
Yes, that happened, by force, against their will. Then they were raped, murdered, and used for the benefit of âUsâ. I realize that as far as you are concerned, its all in the past, and it is what it is, so let it be. You are entitled to your opinion. But just like the concept of âUsâ and what that entails, a lot of us in Zilker donât actually feel that way.
If I had to guess, a lot of it comes from people who canât fathom that Black people are also part of âUsâ. In the grand scheme, I donât disagree. The distinctions draw unnecessary lines that divide and I hope that someday, the distinctions wont exist. But the distinctions exist not only in words but in treatment by the judicial branch, spending by cities on services, quality of education provided by taxpayers, access to resources and opportunities, and finally in how different groups get treated on a day to day basis as they interact with the world. In order to address these inequalities, it became necessary to develop a vocabulary to talk about the groups consistently and to begin taking statistics. All the new-fangled words to describe people that get you so upset only exist because it would be impossible to talk about the systemic issues affecting populations if you did not have words to describe populations that carried consistent meanings.
If you want to spend the rest of your life trying to get rid of these stupid long names for groups of people so we can all just be Americans, you should probably begin working on making sure that all Americans get equal treatment under the law, equal access to public resources, equal treatment in the job market, and equal levels of respect as they participate in American life. That will remove the need to talk about groups by name and then the names can go away. Easy peasy!
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Isaac, you will never get it.
I managed to get kicked off Nextdoor for exposing their CENSORSHIP scheme. Ha!
I just sent this to every City Council Member. I appreciate all support for this worthy cause.
My name is Rod Sanders. I live on the corner of Trailside & Robert E Lee Rd. I understand the desire to change the street name but I think there are better options for honoring Azie Taylor Morton. Herein I will suggest a much more appealing street for her.
First I would like to introduce A D Stenger. He and I were next door neighbors for many years. I knew him as a hard working architect & builder, big game hunter, shrewd businessman and friend to many well-known locals. Visitors like Cactus Pryor and John Henry Faulk would hang out here. During all that time, I didnât know how significant his impact was. I knew A D was an maverick. But it was only after his death in 2002 that I learned about his contribution to the neighborhood and his reputation as a mid-century modern maverick. He developed much of the property along Robert E Lee Rd. He built the home I have owned since 1989. He has never been properly recognized. He, more than anyone else, created the character of our neighborhood.
While the renaming process is under consideration, I know the neighbors are overwhelmingly opposed to changing the name of the street. However, I think it would all go down a little easier if we were to honor one of our own local heroes. I have spoken with Cathy Winfrey in Address Management Services and she has assured me that the name A D Stenger is available. I also checked on John Henry Faulk but she said that name had been used on a street in Pflugerville so they donât really want to add confusion with another John Henry Faulk in Travis County. Please consider a local developer of the entire area served by Robert E Lee Rd. This video tells a little about A D:
I didnât forget about Azie Taylor Morton. Her achievements should not go unrecognized. I discovered a solution. Itâs a beautiful boulevard located conveniently in South Austin near the IH-35/Hwy 71/290 interchange. Itâs currently named as the nondescript Directors Blvd. This gorgeous tree-lined divided 4-lane boulevard runs is about four blocks long. It runs parallel to St Elmo and connects Freiderich Rd with the IH-35 frontage road. Itâs ideal also because it has very no residential addresses so folks wonât have to deal with the inevitable addressing issues that would arise in residential areas.
Finally, the best part is The main users of the boulevard are federal employees. It serves the IRS Customer Service building. Of course, the IRS comprises the largest part of the Treasury Department that Azie Taylor Morton rose to lead. How could it be a more perfect fit? Please see the attached views of the street. If they donât come up properly, please check out Google maps, or better yet, drive over there. You will be impressed.
Thank you for taking my suggestions into consideration as you make the important decision about renaming Robert E Lee Rd.
Dang! That 2nd pic didnât come out right at all.
JP, can you provide a quick refresher on how to block certain people or posts on the FOZ email list? I canât take it anymore.
Indeed. An apt question at an apt time.
- Click on your avatar in the upper right
- Click on the âgearâ icon
- This will bring you to your preferences
- Click on Notifications on the left menu
- At the bottom of the page there is a âmuteâ option where you can enter a username.
Oh @rodsanders123 well, your opinion is well known in that regard. I think some people might think that because I havenât kicked you off this list yet 
Anyway this is all off topic - if itâs not related to the subject of the Robert E Lee name change, please start a new thread.
I turned on the TV just in time to see the entire performance. Quite a show, indeed, solidly orchestrated by the queen of white guilt, Ann Kitchen, with some assistance from Adler & Pool. I hadnât watched these follies in a long time so it was interesting to watch Adler take orders from Kitchen. As expected, she had a regiment of speakers lines up to say supportive things. I felt sorry for those two people who wasted their time to oppose it. They live on Jeff Davis.
Anyway, no surprises as they knew what they were going to do eight months ago. Too bad Kitchen wonât spend as much time and effort on sidewalks as she put into organizing this. She cut out the middle name so itâs just White Way now. Weâll always know the real name.
https://www.austinmonitor.com/stories/2018/04/confederate-names-dropped-from-two-austin-streets
I find the stories of those people having streets named after them inspirational.
Thanks for sharing.
OK Isaac, sorry I didnât have time to read & reply to your whole post yesterday. Iâll do it now.
Us means D5 residents, specifically those living along Robert E Lee. I understand you arenât on REL, but you donât feel like you live in D5? Where do you feel you are?
You have a point here, but probably not in the way you intend. The at-large system was far from perfect. Single-member districts is just far worse. The us is South Austin. No, we are not East Austin. Do you get lost a lot?
If it was working so great, who motivated a change and what reasons did they give? If those reasons were bad ones, please enlighten me as to what was so bad about them.
Some people are motivated by power. Politicians are the best example I can think of. Politicians devise means to gain power. The main reason they gave for pushing single-member districts was because thatâs the way itâs done in most big cities. Does that make it a better system? No.
And the way they do it in most big cities is by distrcits that make sense in terms of the populations within them. Districts are typically geographically compact. The composition of the districts have shared concerns because they live in the same area with the same type of environment.
For instance, since we are central, we have older infrastructure than folks who live in newer more peripheral areas. But after pushing single-member districts thru, using our totally screwed up state districts as a model, they gerrymandered our districts from the getgo.
We (as in our neighborhood) are in the same district as Creedmoor but we are not in the same district as Bouldin. Does that make sense? No, it doesnât. Why did that happen? Maybe the fact that identity politics ruled instead of common sense.
Now, the 2nd argument the politicians made was that it costs too much for a politician to get elected in the at large system. That was their best argument IMO. In terms of direct mail, telephone contact and door-to-door canvasing, costs are reduced substantially by having fewer people to contact in a more compact district. They said at-large elections gave an advantage to wealthier candidates. So I count this as a point in favor of single member districts.
But creative people can find ways to counter big money. It usually involves gaining citizen backing thru supporting popular positions on issues, and having a team that knows how to get the right messages out to the right people. The big expenses like TV, AAS and Chronicle costs, arenât altered. For the affordability factor to be effective, the districts need to be drawn in a sensible way. They were not.
The 3rd reason they used to bamboozle the people was that single member districts would be more democratic - more responsive to those community concerns that derive from people living in the same general area, like 78704. Anyone who has lived in this town for any length of time should know that different areas have their own subcultures.
People like to live in an area with a shared culture. I wanted to be close to downtown. Downtown is surrounded by distinctly different cultural districts. I chose to live in 78704 for a reason. I rented for 5 years a couple blocks from where I finally bought the only place Iâve ever owned. I knew where I belonged. I bought the vibe. I bought the culture. This process takes place across the city.
The city had an honor system to ensure that subcultures had representation. It was sometimes referred to as a gentlemanâs agreement. The amazing thing about it was that it worked. There were no rules to make sure candidates for specific places in the City Council came from any particular area, but as a community, Austin made that happen. It never failed the whole time I lived under that system.
But the newbies were coming in big numbers and there was a question as to whether they would get with the program. So, the argument was made by the politicians that single member districts would ensure that the cultural inclusiveness of the at large system that existed would be retained. The argument went that it was a more democratic process because of the protection of inclusiveness inherent in a district system. This is one of those theories that sounds great until you try it and the reality smacks you up side the head.
I saw the flaw in the logic. Itâs really pretty simple. You canât convince me that I have more say in my govt if I can vote for one person to represent my interests than if I can vote for 8 people to represent my interests. Still, it wouldnât be a bad process if the districts werenât gerrymandered to nullify the common community interests we shared in 78704 by virtue of our geographic location. Identity politicis is the fly in the ointment.
If you use Identity politics to create districts, constiuencies suddenly begin to look very much alike. The subcultures that had existed are ignored and in the case of 04, wiped away completely.
So, it ends up a lot like the street. I didnât really care about getting rid of the old name. I wanted to have a say in the new name. None of us got that. I donât like being able to only vote for one rep when I got to vote for all of them before, but none of us had any say in how those districts were drawn. Mark my words - Theyâll do it again with CodeNEXT. Itâs all about the power. They will create bureaucracy and they will micro-manage as much as they can. Every move and everyone will be under their thumbs.
Thatâs what the politicians have done by imposing single-member districts on us. They took away our power and gave it to themselves. And they kept bringing it up time and again, trying to make the election happen when the conditions in town would be most favorable to the result they were going to get eventually by hook or by crook.
Is Us bothered by having to work a little harder to talk about Black people respectfully?
You arenât being smart here. Youâre just being a smartass playing some Us game. In the context of your sentence, you must mean whites, right?
Itâs not BS, Itâs a FACT. Iâm a terrible typist. Was I trying to be efficient? You created a straw man to make that assertion. I was explaining something that evidently flew right over your head. You donât even try to get it. Thatâs why you wonât.
Well, yâall can call it White Guilt Way now. How about getting to work and changing that offensive Lamar to Malcolm X or something? And you have no clue what I think unless and until I tell you. You just created another straw man.
I wonât spend the rest of my life arguing with you. If you want to ignore the basics so you can justify your divisive approach, go right ahead. Iâm confident in my understanding of these social issues. Language is fundamental and its impact is subtle but substantial.
Meet the person who renamed our street, Ann Kitchenâs âcommunityâ of one, doing the identity politics tango to replace her predecessor, the infamous Dawna Dukes: